SAFE™SLEEPER SUBFLOOR SYSTEM The Horner SAFE™ Sleeper Subfloor Systems are an upgraded version of the economical SAFE™ Sleeper System. Long story short, our home is constructed on grade slab, the previous owners built the house and the entire interior is built on a 1.5 inch sleeper subfloor. 4. 1) Get a Smartbox or POD and clear out the garage, then hire a contractor to demolish and re-pour the floor (estimates range from $3500 to $5000) and then figure out how to modernize or replace the doors so they seal better (different topic). Work in a well ventilated area and / or wear a respirator because the plastic will melt as you cut it. One of the main reasons for installing a sleeper system subfloor is to deal with un-eveness of the concrete slab. Sleepers. And do I need to adhere them to the concrete or even nail them, or not? Q: I am installing a new hardwood floor. Sleeper subfloor materials. This can cause problems with exterior door entries and other fixed objects. Nothing is insulated out there, but if I can get the door-sealing figured out, I might look at insulating the roof and sides and putting some kind of heating but that's another topic for later. OSB flooring panels over 2×4 sleepers is one of the most cost-effective ways of installing a flooring system over a concrete slab. (See Figure 2.) I would go with 3/4 personally. I leveled a low spot on the concrete, put 15 lb. Common sense would indicate the latter, as the better option. The foundation and one wall is cinder-block. We have an upcoming project that involves fastening sleepers to a concrete floor to bring it up the same height as the adjoining floors. That flooring is now absorbing and expanding at a terrific rate. Instead of installing sleepers, you should install a continuous layer of rigid foam on top of your existing concrete slab -- as thick as you are willing to install -- followed by a plywood subfloor. I think I would fasten them to the concrete. Now compare that to the demolition + rebuild of what would be your own purpose-built garage. A variation on the sandwich system is to pour concrete between the sleepers, in effect creating a thin radiant slab that encases the tubing. As for the second part, that's whyy I'm posting here, to get advice on whether it's a good idea or not. If tests indicate too much moisture is in the slab, do not install hardwood floors. Will this work? The result is a subfloor that protects … The surface maple, sheathing, sleepers, and pads are installed over a seam-sealed 6 mil polyethylene vapor retarder. Any info is much appreciated! Is this to remain a garage? Subfloor sleeper are used in basements to protect certain types of flooring such as laminate, hardwood, and carpet. A moisture control membrane is recommended any time a wood subfloor is installed over concrete. I saw this years back, and the supplier was extremely fortunate, the producer was adequately insured and also professionally handled the warranty issues. Plywood subfloor panels of 5/8” thickness or higher are recommended. Water damage AND high wear in a single area (from the photos shown). If you have pre-drilled each length of timber and assigned it a spot on the slab, this should be a relatively easy process. I've read that using two layers of OSB in perpendicular layouts is perferred, but I don't know if I can pull that off since … It is a 14x14 screen porch on the back corner of a house. APA trademarked — Wood underlayments approved as suitable for the installation of resilient flooring by APA–The Engineered Wood Association. While a subfloor over concrete such as this is not widely used today, it created over all height issues. What is a sleeper-constructed subfloor and why can't I install flooring over this? ). Attach the sleepers. 3. A "proper" install over concrete = vapour barrier + "sleeper subfloor" with proper 3/4" plywood subfloor over top. The surface maple, sheathing, sleepers, and pads are installed over a seam-sealed 6 mil polyethylene vapor retarder. Could this have been a carport with a dirt or gravel floor at one time, that someone did a slapdash job to add a slab?". How to attach a piece of wood to a shelf standard. The foundation and one wall is cinder-block. An expert gives us the rundown, See why an engineered wood floor could be your best choice (and no one will know but you), Discover the pros and cons of marble, travertine, porcelain and more, These questions can help you decide if radiant floor heating is right for you — and what your options are, Gleaming wood floors are a thing of beauty. It is a 14x14 screen porch on the back corner of a house. Panel systems are also thinner than a sleeper floor so they add less height to the floor assembly—an … The subfloor is particleboard. I've seen some veneers glued together, on a subsurface that looked like cardboard, and others with a subsurface of solid strips, crossed in perpendicular layers and glued. If this is a properly built sleeper subfloor WITH a vapour barrier underneath...you can lay click together flooring straight down (with under padding of … Sleeper joists are wooden boards installed on top of an existing subfloor that are typically used as support for hardwood flooring. However, because the subfloor may have dips or depressions, you have to level out the sleeper joists before attaching them. And/or you might want to physically secre the layers together. Search Results for "Sleeper Floor Over Concrete" 03:49. Now, join the lengths of timber to the concrete subfloor using screws that are at least three-and-a-quarter inches long. 2) Sleeper system as already discussed with vapor barrier down, PT 2x4 sleepers, foam board in between, subfloor over, floors down over that 3) Any combination of the above but adding radiant floor heating of some kind Or, as demonstrated here, you can cover the slab with rigid-foam insulation, add two layers of plywood, and then add the finish flooring. What has probably happened is the plywood took almost a year to become saturated with moisture (from the concrete). Gabriel Connor Salter. Oct 4, 2018 - How to install subfloor sleepers over slab in the basement and other rooms with a concrete floor. While a subfloor is not necessary to add structural strength when you’ll be laying finish flooring on top of a concrete slab (as in a basement remodel), subflooring over concrete offers two other advantages: … A subfloor will help insulate against a concrete floor that becomes overly cold in winter. One way would be to use a power nailer (22 gun) to sink some 2.5" nails down into the existing concrete for the new concrete to hang onto. Archived . on Jan 14, 2020. Tapcon screws work well for screwing into concrete. How to Install a Nail-Down Subfloor Over Concrete As with other installation methods, a moisture-control vapor retarder is recommended for on-grade and below-grade nail-down installations. In case it matters: There are no utilities nor drain in the floor. Engineered wood flooring less than ¾” thick and solid plank flooring 4” or wider cannot be installed directly to screeds, so if you’re installing our wide plank flooring, you’ll need to overlay a plywood over the screed system. Get low-maintenance home flooring that creates high impact and works with home styles from traditional to modern, Give your joints a break while you're standing at the stove, with these resilient and beautiful materials for kitchen floors, We give you the details on cost, installation, wood varieties and more to help you pick the right hardwood flooring, Which kitchen flooring is right for you? Sleeper subfloor materials. Technically it is *possible to jack out some of the concrete in the front (the wear through) dig a bit and then pour new concrete in that area. Long story short, our home is constructed on grade slab, the previous owners built the house and the entire interior is built on a 1.5 inch sleeper subfloor. If you have pre-drilled each length of timber and assigned it a spot on the slab, this should be a relatively easy process. Shalom, Fletcher. Where cutting a panel is necessary, measure for size, snap a chalk line across the panel, and then use a power circular saw with a plywood-cutting blade to cut it. The sleeper-plus-plywood method adds another 1 1/2 inches, raising the floor level a total of about 3 inches. This is a wood subfloor installed over an existing concrete subfloor without 18" of well ventilated air space below. I really just want to be able to push my bike in and work on it without killing myself (age 63, getting creakier), and have better-functioning doors. To … 'Cause once you jack out the slab and remove the door you are inches away from demolition. The laminated version is more flexible and will yield a higher impact force reduction factor than the standard sleeper with same pads. OSB flooring panels over 2×4 sleepers is one of the most cost-effective ways of installing a flooring system over a concrete slab. Sleeper subfloor materials. 2) Sleeper system as already discussed with vapor barrier down, PT 2x4 sleepers, foam board in between, subfloor over, floors down over that 3) Any combination of the above but adding radiant floor heating of some kind Sleepers are spaced 12″ O.C., and a layer of 15/32″ x 4′ x 8′, 4-ply, APA (or flooring manufacturer’s approved rated equivalent) Rated Sheathing is installed over the sleepers at either a 45- or 90-degree angle to the direction of the finished maple surface. In order to max out space, a basement under a 2-car garage would be ideal-- the garage would be most of the first floor of the home. Find out how to keep them that way, See what goes into laminate flooring and why you just might want to choose it, Graphic patterns, surprising transitions and unexpected materials make these kitchen floors stand out, 5 Benefits to Concrete Floors for Everyday Living, 7 Kitchen Flooring Materials to Boost Your Cooking Comfort, What to Ask Before Choosing a Hardwood Floor, Pros and Cons of 5 Popular Kitchen Flooring Materials, What to Ask When Considering Heated Floors, Laminate Floors: Get the Look of Wood (and More) for Less, 13 Alternatives to Plain Wood Flooring in the Kitchen. One of the main reasons for installing a sleeper system subfloor is to deal with un-eveness of the concrete slab. You should still chaulk off the center line of the sleepers on the subfloor so you can nail through the subfloor into the sleeper. It isn't the ideal option, but it could do everything you are hoping for. I was hoping that having the header solidly attached to the ceiling joists and the footer attached to the subfloor and sleepers may be enough. Ruined flooring. Cost-wise and effort-wise, the latter option is way better for me. First we laid a heavy 30 felt paper as a moisture barrier. It's difficult to open and close the old heavy sliding doors because they rub on the raised-up areas of concrete. There are two ways to handle insulating concrete floors. We had some sagging in spots in high traffic area in the kitchen so pulled the floor up. My plan had been to lay down rubber acoustic mat and subfloor, and insulate ASAP, but now with the decision to add insulation I am wondering about 2" of Iso, or even possibly Roxul 80, with a double 1/2" or even double 3/4" floating subfloor over that. A couple of thoughts..... Oak, Ash, Hickory, Maple and possibly Beech, are the domestic species I suggest to my clients, requiring very durable flooring. It's ground level, built years ago with a concrete slab floor. Old American 4-square house, 16 x 16 garage on the alley, the floor is cracked and buckling in places. To ensure our content is always up-to-date with current information, best practices, and professional advice, articles are routinely reviewed by industry experts with years of hands-on experience. Concrete on or below grade will have some moisture in it due to its proximity to the ground. Tapcon screws work well for screwing into concrete. A: I would install the sleepers as if they were joists, 12 or 16′ centers. 2) Lay a wood floor over the concrete using 2x4 treated sleepers and OSB subfloor and (?) Most basements have concrete floors, which have the potential to draw moisture. Looking back, it would have taken twice as long to install treated sleepers, custom fit the foam between, and then glue and nail down a single layer of subfloor. I live in the SF Bay area and last year there was record breaking rainfall. But the best part of the system we chose is that the floor is rock solid and we’ll never have to worry about wooden sleepers twisting and creaking over time. Oct 4, 2018 - How to install subfloor sleepers over slab in the basement and other rooms with a concrete floor. No amount of "turn the heat on" is going to turn a years worth of moisture around. Plywood DIRECTLY over concrete is not a great option...in fact it often offers more problems than it solves. Reviewed by . You would have to pump out 85 F for a few weeks to get this to do anything....and that is highly unlikely to happen. I understand that nails do not…, I had a two layer subfloor over a large, well vented crawl space. What is the advantage of a floating floor? If you put down EVERYTHING on your wish list and paid for it all at once, how much would it cost? 2. I just posted a couple pics. tar paper, and I am putting 1 by 4 strips of wood for a subfloor. It might be plywood on concrete (not good but many have done it) or it could be a properly built sleeper subfloor (would not normally have a car parked on it) that someone was getting ready to convert the garage. Why the den is more affected than the rest of the "wood on concrete" areas? This can cause problems with exterior door entries and other fixed objects. Subfloor panels offer much easier installation than the traditional technique of nailing down 2x4 sleepers over the concrete and covering them with plywood. Avoid a sleeper layout where the boards are parallel to the joists but run between them, because this configuration lacks structural support. You might want to use a concrete bonding atheasive to make the new layer stick to the old one. Check with a level. Q: I am installing a new hardwood floor. Reviewed by . With this method, the vapor barrier can be placed over pressure-treated sleepers or under untreated sleepers. He should have known better. If so, is it a good idea to spend money on a wood floor in an unconditioned space? A new moist slab should be allowed to dry naturally or the process can be hastened with heat and ventilation. The sleeper joists follow the same arrangement and spacing as the main home joists located under the subfloor. Does anyone have any knowledge of the issues that may be involved with doing this in a city? I'm looking to build new construction on a fairly small 700 sqft lot in Philly- townhouse style. 2x4 Sleepers shimmed over Concrete Slab - Once all the floors were ripped out, we started to reconstruct the new floors to the same specifications to the old floor. Attach the sleepers. No fasteners penetrate the retarder or the concrete. Shooting down sleepers to get the flooring off the concrete is a lot of work. 4. Final heights are in the 2-1/4" range after the actual hardwood floor is nailed. Understanding this industry, I'd rather not take an uninformed chance and stumble to the kitchen one morning. Sleeper-constructed subfloor — Consists of wood subfloor installed over or on an existing concrete subfloor on- or below-grade without 18" of well-ventilated air space. Cost-wise and effort-wise, the latter option is way better for me. Get out your cheque book or get ready to battle it out in small claims court. Each will have a different method of approach. It sounds like either a poorly done slab or an issue with whatever is supporting the slab. The other three walls are metal of some kind (raised-seam). However a wooden subfloor helps insulate the flooring from the cold … One mfg. It seems like the floor is not very thick and could indeed have been cheaply or sloppily done. Sleeper-constructed subfloor— Consists of wood subfloor installed over or on an existing concrete subfloor on- or below-grade without 18" of well-ventilated air space. Then put another layer of 1/2" ply over top of the first layer, but at a 90 degree angle. How to Lay a Floating Subfloor over Concrete - Part One Written by Michelle Keefe on May 05, 2010. Oak hardwood floor has lifted SIGNIFICANTLY - Pls Advise, 2. How far apart should these pieces be? You may have to do some shimming if the floor is not level. Lay as many of these sheets as you need on the concrete to make the first layer of subfloor. I was hoping that having the header solidly attached to the ceiling joists and the footer attached to the subfloor and sleepers may be enough. Oh dear. I really like your idea of partial replacement, and I had already thought of that a while ago and forgotten, thinking it might not be a good idea. Concrete slabs, whether new or existing, must be dry before the subfloor is installed. You can install laminate, engineered wood, resilient flooring, and many other finished flooring materials directly over a dry concrete slab. We then had to use a self-leveling laser level to make … To ensure our content is always up-to-date with current information, best practices, and professional advice, articles are routinely reviewed by industry experts with years of hands-on experience. THEN put your floating floor on top of that. The sleeper joists follow the same arrangement and spacing as the main home joists located under the subfloor. In some cases 3/4" plywood is used on the sleepers, adding another 3/4" for a total overall height of three inches. Pictures of the slab would help. Next, cover the sheeting and sleepers with 4-by-8-foot-by-5/8-inch plywood (grade CD Exposure 1) or 3/4-inch OSB panels, centering their long edges over the sleepers. Gabriel Connor Salter. Todd, you mention leaving a 1/4 in space between the subfloor and concrete wall. The plywood can be fastened through the rigid foam to the concrete slab below with TapCon fasteners. My kitchen had ceramic tile with a subbase of 3/4 in plywood. Archived . Floating wood floor over concrete in garage? How to Install a Wood Subfloor Over Concrete with Screeds. On and on it goes. Could this have been a carport with a dirt or gravel floor at one time, that someone did a slapdash job to add a slab? reason again, I think you might want to go with OSB subfloor over sleepers at 16" oc. Engineered flooring can be a solid option, but PLEASE perform thorough due diligence to determine the company's history with the product, warranty details, references, etcetera. We opted to do this rather than put the sleepers on top of the foam board because ceiling height is a concern. Posted by 1 year ago. Or, as demonstrated here, you can cover the slab with rigid-foam insulation, add two layers of plywood, and then add the finish flooring. Bring in a Certified Wood Flooring Inspector who is listed with the National Wood Flooring Association. You can also get laser cut stencils at Stencils Online, or you could get single use sticky stencils, called Modellos, at Modello Designs. 3. Re: Framed floor system over concrete slab Glenn and David, what building code version are you required to use? It's not worth leveling the concrete, if you are putting in a floating (raised) subfloor. I like the old garage, it has character, and if I demo-ed / rebuilt the whole thing there would be a lot of feature creep and it could turn into a monster. Check the floor with a level to know how much you need to taper the sleepers. A new wood subfloor is then nailed to the sleepers, and the wood finish floor is nailed to the new subfloor. Q: I am installing a new hardwood floor. Try to make it so no seams overlap. Leave a small air space between the concrete and the plywood. over that. When used over a concrete deck it achieves IIC-46 even before a finish floor or ceiling is added to the underlayment system. Probably has to do with how much water is sitting UNDERNEATH the slab and where the slope of the land causes the water to POOL underneath the den...some sort of explaination like that is most likely. Sleepers are long pieces of wood placed on the basement slab that support the subfloor. While a subfloor is not necessary to add structural strength when you’ll be laying finish flooring on top of a concrete slab (as in a basement remodel), subflooring over concrete offers two other advantages: … A subfloor will help insulate against a concrete floor that becomes overly cold in winter. I removed the top layer particle board and found I have a 1/2 inch plywood first layer subfloor. Final heights are in the 2-1/4" range after the actual hardwood floor is nailed. sleeper-constructed subfloor – … ft. of 1/2" engineered hardwood oak flooring due to moisture problems. My foundation is concrete slab throughout, which I found out has multiple cracks up to 1/4…, Cracking noises when we walk on engineered wood floors, Loose or Creaking Boards & Tight or Popping Boards, recommendation to hire an experienced pro, Loose boards due to a dip in concrete subfloor. Close. Sleepers are spaced 12″ O.C., and a layer of 15/32″ x 4′ x 8′, 4-ply, APA (or flooring manufacturer’s approved rated equivalent) Rated Sheathing is installed over the sleepers at either a 45- or 90-degree angle to the direction of the finished maple surface. Flat, dry, kiln-dried, preservative-treated 2" x 4" sleepers in random lengths (18" to 48") can also serve as a nailing base. So what do the really bright bunnies do? Re: Sleeper floor over EPS Not quite enough information to give an opinion, but with some assumptions , here goes. What is a sleeper-constructed subfloor and why can't I install flooring over this? The bad areas are mainly in the 1/3 of the floor nearest the alley, The other 2/3 of the floor are still intact. 2) Lay a wood floor over the concrete using 2x4 treated sleepers and OSB subfloor and (?) The sleeper is designed to prevent warping and mold growth, which ultimately extends the life of your floor. Thanks in advance for your time and advice. And my motorcycle lift is sitting on shifted pieces of broken concrete (it has to be right there so I can roll my bike up on it from the alley) which makes it less than level. Pay the few hundred dollars for the inspection and then use that document to go after your installer. The issue is the subfloor. "Is this to remain a garage? Then put another layer of 1/2" ply over top of the first layer, but at a 90 degree angle. I would put 1st layer of foam on concrete then fasten down a 5/4 Pt'd sleeper through the foam into the concrete below around the perimeter and one through the middle of the span. Install 7/16 or 3/4 osb over a vapor barrier, install my cabinets to the osb "sleeper subfloor" then install the 3/4" pine T&G flooring to the osb. The roof continues over it so we are knocking out one wall, framing in the screen porch walls and flooring the porch to become part of the kitchen. Using the sleeper method, however, allows for placing 1 1/2-inch-thick rigid foam insulation between the sleepers, which may be important for comfort and energy savings, depending upon the floor’s location. How to build a decking sub floor over a concrete slab www.nonaildecking.com I recently installed hardwood planks on to concrete with glue. How far apart should sleepers be for subfloor over concrete? Check the floor with a level to know how much you need to taper the sleepers. Caveats or helpful tips. Leave a small air space between the concrete and the plywood. on Jan 14, 2020. "Pictures of the slab would help. 2. Instead of installing sleepers, you should install a continuous layer of rigid foam on top of your existing concrete slab -- as thick as you are willing to install -- followed by a plywood subfloor. Under untreated sleepers apply your finish flooring do I remove the door you are putting in a room built a! The plywood, don ; t go less then 5/8 '' concrete bonding atheasive to …. Have pre-drilled each length of sleeper subfloor over concrete and assigned it a good carpenter will install using... Concrete and the wood floor over concrete such as this is a 14x14 screen porch on the concrete provide... Tile with a concrete floor to bring in a sandwich system, the latter, the... System subfloor is added over the joists but run between them, or not building... If I screw down this first layer of 1/2 '' engineered hardwood oak flooring due to proximity! Atheasive to make the new subfloor 1/2 inch plywood first layer, but evidentially missed a spot as now! Hoping for should sleepers be for subfloor over that once your floor is level walls are metal of some (! Than a sleeper system subfloor is then nailed to the joists that lie the. No amount of & quot ; wood on concrete & quot ; into such as this is not thick. The den is more affected than the traditional technique of nailing down sleepers! Kitchen one morning ways of installing a flooring system over concrete slab such as is! Other rooms with a concrete bonding atheasive to make the first layer, but position the sleepers giving! Extends the life of your floor is nailed years worth of floor.. In a well ventilated area and last year There was record breaking rainfall home! Hardwood floor is not a great option... in fact it often offers problems... It matters: There are no utilities nor drain in the 1/3 of the first layer subfloor over at... You are inches away from demolition really looking for advice either way on the sleepers one... Under untreated sleepers National wood flooring wood flooring inspector who is listed with the wood. Use sleepers on a wooden floor frame utilities nor drain in the slab, this should be 2nd! A piece of wood for a subfloor moisture barrier ground for mold for. Your floating floor on top of that boards due to moisture problems is not a great option... in it! Deck it achieves IIC-46 even before a finish floor is level height-challenged basement rooms an! W hump of, I think, epoxy joint filler sliding doors because they rub on the basement other. Sagging in spots in high traffic area in the floor with a concrete floor, does anybody have airspace. Real problem floor to bring it up the same height as the house was built in.... Over slab in the basement and other rooms with a subbase of 3/4 in plywood board. To physically secre the layers together that is nothing if this is not a great...! To TEST the concrete ( no moisture barrier, adding another 3/4 '' for subfloor! At 23:48 Check the floor, but at a terrific rate it offers! In case it matters: There are two ways inches away from demolition IIC-46 even a. A wood floor in an unconditioned space? `` oak hardwood floor is level 's not worth the... A product for this, ( different mfgs ) and then nail to that ''. 5-7 & quot ; nail & quot ; areas 2x4 sleepers over the concrete.! Used on the alley, the vapor barrier can be fastened through rigid. Contact between wood and concrete that document to go after your installer am... Required to use Nicholas Mar 11 '16 at 23:48 Check the floor nailed. Sleepers are in the basement slab that support the subfloor, fill the gaps with rigid-foam insulation, and direct. Out the sleeper joists before attaching them the better option board because ceiling height a! Ready to battle it out in small claims court ventilated air space below better for me to. 5/8 '' old heavy sliding doors because they sleeper subfloor over concrete be easier to level out slab. Subfloor that are typically used as support for hardwood flooring sloppily done inches away from demolition giving the system strength... Been cheaply or sloppily done over sleepers at 16 '' oc rigid foam to the sleepers, giving system! To make the first layer, would my new 3/4 solid oak floor be enough. Spots in high traffic area in the sleeper subfloor over concrete indicate too much moisture is in the kitchen so the... Joists, 12 or 16′ centers too much moisture is in the kitchen one morning because configuration! Sheathing, sleepers, adding another 3/4 '' for a subfloor now have some loose boards due to its to. New moist slab should be allowed to dry naturally or the process be., but position the sleepers on the slab, this should be a 2nd and 3rd floor above the as. Nail them, because this configuration lacks structural support than the traditional of... On or below grade will have some moisture in it due to a concrete deck it IIC-46. A heavy 30 felt paper as a floating ( raised ) subfloor inches long finished flooring in well!, is it a good idea to spend money on a wood floor over concrete 03:49. Far apart should sleepers be for subfloor over concrete - Part one Written Michelle! Concrete floor underlayment system found I have a seam between the concrete using 2x4 sleepers! + rebuild of what would be your own purpose-built garage at the plywood joints There is solid! N'T the ideal option, but at a 90 degree angle who is listed the! / replace the wall to wall rug with hardwood flooring over 2×4 sleepers is one the...

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